Revival Round 2 Criticism Thread

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Revival Round 2 Criticism Thread

Post  Nearco on Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:03 pm

Yeah, we aren't gonna bother with a Round 2 Criticism thread because the flaws in it are obvious to us already. (Length, lack of involvement, inevitability at the end, etc...)

In any case, for Liar Dice, the following problems are noteable, at least from my perspective: (These are all based off games 2 and 3)

Randomization: There were 3 sets of randomization. The teams (although this was more based on schedules), the dice rolls, and the order. The teams were just as randomized as things were back in the preliminary round (Caterpillar game). The order didn't end up being too important, we accounted for that in the rules. The dice rolls were an inherent random component to the original game, and the ways we saw of removing them were flawed. This randomness did become an issue, however, as calls were made with the belief that they would be false, but it turned out to be true, and vice versa.

Negligible Twist: Whenever we start with a real-life game, we always find some sort of thing to change. In this case, we added the successful false call rule (where you make a call that would cause a player to win if they called doubt on you, but noone called doubt, so you get a reward). There is one major reason for this: To stop past experience with the game dominating while newbies are left out. Additionally, it helps make it a Liar Game game, rather than just a game of Liar Dice. Between games 2 and 3, the successful false call rule came up once. And the caller didn't think it would.

Chat nature: The problem here is the problems with realtime in general. Chat means that people are affected by buggy computers, haphazard scheduling, confusion on time zones, etc... When we use the forums, buggy computers don't matter, since you can fix it long enough to post. Scheduling isn't an issue. Time zones aren't an issue. In general, forum-based games are more robust to murphy's law.

Please note, Liar Dice was the game I supplied for this round, so I search for flaws more than other people will. Just because there are flaws doesn't mean that it wasn't an enjoyable or interesting game. It just means there are components that could be changed to be more enjoyable or interesting. So, I want to keep an eye out for those for future rounds. Forli came up with games based on his past experience, we come up with games based on... our own awesomeness?
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Re: Revival Round 2 Criticism Thread

Post  Masquerade on Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:58 pm

Well, I don't think the randomness was a problem. As long as you do what you need to do with what's given to you. Just because a strange number of die showed up doesn't mean it's impossible for it to happen.

As for the computer bugginess, yeah, I agree there. In general, I don't think playing a game in real time is bad, but adding elements of speed (I called this first mwahaha) is where things go awry. It's not as strategic.

And the Negligible Twist: the possibilities still made things interesting. I'm glad I profited. XD

That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with the game's design.

However, when I saw Game 3 received 14 points, I was... irked. 12 points, I'm okay with (as was originally stated would be the case for Game 1). 14 is too advantageous. If any of those players won 2 of the 3 games (which they had a higher chance to do than Game 2, since there were only 3 players as opposed to our 4), they would've won 28 points, when a player in Game 2 would've won 20. That's almost an entire round's worth of extra points. The more I reason this as I type, the more unfair I find 14 points to be.
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Re: Revival Round 2 Criticism Thread

Post  Nearco on Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:15 pm

We originally expected our twist to come up more often. Playtesting had slower games with more successful false calls. The theory was that your opponents were also potential allies. Getting more points depended entirely on them, so we often would try to get a few extra points from letting the game continue a bit. Admittedly, we may have been forcing the successful false calls rule to be more prominent.

Also, the 3-player rules were thrown together at the last moment when we found we had 11 players. We didn't know how the numbers would compare with a 4 player game, and we didn't have enough time to playtest the numbers properly. We believed that winning 2 out of 3 is somewhat harder than 2 out of 4, since there is less room for error, and with less games to earn points in, we gave each of those 2 problems a +2 bonus, resulting in an increase of +4.
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Re: Revival Round 2 Criticism Thread

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:58 pm

Nearco wrote:We originally expected our twist to come up more often. Playtesting had slower games with more successful false calls. The theory was that your opponents were also potential allies. Getting more points depended entirely on them, so we often would try to get a few extra points from letting the game continue a bit. Admittedly, we may have been forcing the successful false calls rule to be more prominent.

Yes, except when a false call is made, money automatically disappears into LGT office, so if everyone agrees to do that often, then they'd go into debt. And if not everyone works together, then even if you still can control the game better, losing a bluff is way too easy. Remember that only 1/6 of all possible calls are valid.
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Re: Revival Round 2 Criticism Thread

Post  Solarium King on Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:34 pm

How's it been?

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Re: Revival Round 2 Criticism Thread

Post  Xanatos on Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:34 pm

i love liars dice, plus i like games on the xat, theyre more intense, yeah forum games are less hazardous, but i think we should have more games on xat coz its more fun
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Re: Revival Round 2 Criticism Thread

Post  Solarium King on Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:58 am

Xanatos wrote:i love liars dice, plus i like games on the xat, theyre more intense, yeah forum games are less hazardous, but i think we should have more games on xat coz its more fun

Agreed. I don't think it's really your fault when people have shitty bandwith. Force them to get better bandwith. And also, xat games promote coming onto the xat, so increase in activity.

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