Contracts Discussion

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Contracts Discussion

Post  Truth on Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:09 am

So I assume that most of you will notice Leronira's announcement about contracts. If you haven't, it can be found here: http://liar-game.forum-motion.com/news-bulletin-f8/july-20th-update-contracts-t325.htm

What I don't understand is why people who didn't use their one contract should be charged as well.
We charged you 100 million yen for your contract, whether you used it or not
Shouldn't these contracts be more like an important and vital tool to help one through the game, rather than something that you should use because you're going to be charged for it anyway? It makes these contracts seem less important than they are.

Discuss.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Forli on Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:20 am

The LGT is charging you the priviledge of having a contract use. That priviledge expired when you decided not to use it, but we still want the money back, as you had the priviledge.

You could have always returned the contract to us before it expired and you wouldn't be in need of paying, of course.

A perfectly fair exchange. We just took back what we gave you.
We, the LGT, are fair.

The winners and the wolves are not charged by the contracts, though. Therefore, every loser has a 100 million debt.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Truth on Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:35 am

I did use my contract, but I just wanted some clarification of the whole matter.

So we can avoid paying 100 million yen by either giving up our privilege of a contract or winning? Very well, I understand now.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  JigSaw on Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:57 am

Shoulda told use we could of Declined the offer of Contracts.. Because I for one didnt use it. Didnt Plan to either since i died early
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Kerreh on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:54 am

Mmm... We should have been told this before round one started.
I didn't use a contract and if I had known that I had to return it, I would have. >.>
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Xanatos on Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:34 am

why are winners and wolves not charged? i mean good idea acting all tough and enforcing this debt outta nowhere....but u cant go half and half and let some people through and some people not.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Talinos on Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:04 am

man this is again not well thought...
Just winning erase the payback???

In them manga the LGT would now be destroyed. Because many lawyers would just sue them...The fact of charging fees/pursuing fees after you used something and its not stated beforehand in a contract(verbal/written) is against the law. They would have to expose them self and would have a lot of compensation to pay.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  MonkeyBoy on Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:18 am

Kerreh wrote:Mmm... We should have been told this before round one started.
I didn't use a contract and if I had known that I had to return it, I would have. >.>

Your avatar scares me.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  BadPlayer on Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:56 am

Aw, posted in the other thread before I saw this. Oh well.



Please don't make/change rules after the fact. Arbitrarily changing the rules really ruins the fun of the game (which is in trying to do as much as you can within the set of clear, explicit rules). If you want to charge for contracts in the future, go ahead, but don't pull a "you owe us 100mil for the priviledge lolz" out of nowhere just because you guys want to change the way the money was distributed from the Doubt Game.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Forli on Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:08 am

Quoting myself from the other play and taking the roleplay mode off:

Spoiler:
You are kind of right, but it was something we needed to do. As players complained about how wolves were on a big disadvantage, as they were the only ones in debt, we used that as an excuse to fix the mistake. Now all the players but the winners are equally 100 million in debt.

That's just the "plot" for the game. Everyone will start with -100 mill and must try to fight his way into the winnings. It's nothing personal, so please don't rage too much about it.

And btw, this happened for a mistake made by me. I appologize to all for it. I intentded only to give money to the winners and everyone else would be 0 debt, including the wolves, but that's flawed as the LGT would be giving money away. And LGt loves money, you know. So we decided to do this.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Kerreh on Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:29 am

MonkeyBoy wrote:
Kerreh wrote:Mmm... We should have been told this before round one started.
I didn't use a contract and if I had known that I had to return it, I would have. >.>

Your avatar scares me.


...As does your's.


~ Meh... I still don't like how it was suddenly changed after round one.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Guest on Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:32 am

I know this is irrelevant and not important, but I just like how most of everyone, except MonkeyBoy who has 100K YEN, has -100K YEN which is lower than what I have. ^^

(Relevant response to the topic)
The more I hear about the game, the most worst it seems to be, I would say that the initial idea for the game was good, but the possible outcomes of each type of player and also the contracts as stated in this topic are greatly flawed to the point where significant improvements could be made for future games; as an improvement I would say that this version of the game by PA seems more exciting, I might just join it. ^^

http://liar-game.forum-motion.com/the-break-room-f10/rape-the-pa-version-of-doubt-aka-pervy-doubt-rape-doubt-rape-treatment-rp-t322.htm
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Solarium King on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:09 pm

Forli wrote:The LGT is charging you the priviledge of having a contract use. That priviledge expired when you decided not to use it, but we still want the money back, as you had the priviledge.

You could have always returned the contract to us before it expired and you wouldn't be in need of paying, of course.

A perfectly fair exchange. We just took back what we gave you.
We, the LGT, are fair.

The winners and the wolves are not charged by the contracts, though. Therefore, every loser has a 100 million debt.

Just because you guys failed to notice a flaw, doesn't mean you have to make random excuses.

You charged me 100 million for having a choice of using a contract? But all that really happened was that you didn't tell anyone about that before (in fact it was never stipulated AT ALL), so it ended up being "we want our contracts back, 100 million yen each." Seriously, this makes as much sense as someone making a company for breathing, where every time someone breaths, I get 1 penny.

Besides, this is SO stupid. In fact, this is RETARDED. Why? Because I am the winner of the Minority Game, like with 2 other people. The prize was another effing contract. I shouldn't be in the debt.

Since I'm just an asshole, this is what I'm going to do: for you to get your money back, you must pay me 200 million yen. 50% compound interest, every minute.

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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Furer Kip on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:14 pm

Solarium King wrote:
Forli wrote:The LGT is charging you the priviledge of having a contract use. That priviledge expired when you decided not to use it, but we still want the money back, as you had the priviledge.

You could have always returned the contract to us before it expired and you wouldn't be in need of paying, of course.

A perfectly fair exchange. We just took back what we gave you.
We, the LGT, are fair.

The winners and the wolves are not charged by the contracts, though. Therefore, every loser has a 100 million debt.

Just because you guys failed to notice a flaw, doesn't mean you have to make random excuses.

You charged me 100 million for having a choice of using a contract? But all that really happened was that you didn't tell anyone about that before (in fact it was never stipulated AT ALL), so it ended up being "we want our contracts back, 100 million yen each." Seriously, this makes as much sense as someone making a company for breathing, where every time someone breaths, I get 1 penny.

Besides, this is SO stupid. In fact, this is RETARDED. Why? Because I am the winner of the Minority Game, like with 2 other people. The prize was another effing contract. I shouldn't be in the debt.

Since I'm just an asshole, this is what I'm going to do: for you to get your money back, you must pay me 200 million yen. 50% compound interest, every minute.

Chill out, it's not even real...

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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  BadPlayer on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:23 pm

It's the principle.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Forli on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:35 pm

I think that you should calm down a bit. It's a game, you know?

We disscused two options: Charging players (except for wolves and winners) 100 million yen for entering the Revival Round or doing this. We thought this would be more "Evil LGT-ish", but the result would've been exactly the same.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Furer Kip on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:41 pm

Forli wrote:I think that you should calm down a bit. It's a game, you know?

We disscused two options: Charging players (except for wolves and winners) 100 million yen for entering the Revival Round or doing this. We thought this would be more "Evil LGT-ish", but the result would've been exactly the same.

Aside from the fact we have to make 100 million more if the wolves were never forced to be re-imbursed.

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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Glass on Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:38 pm

Ok points against paying for contracts:

1. Dealers didnt say beforehand that the contracts would cost 100 million, which is ridiculous. Noone would have agreed to this if they had known.

2. Why didnt the winners need to pay for their contract?

3. Why didnt the wolves have to pay for their contract?

Points for paying for contracts:

1. Ummm.... The dealers want to be dicks?
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Furer Kip on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:10 pm

Glass wrote:Ok points against paying for contracts:

1. Dealers didnt say beforehand that the contracts would cost 100 million, which is ridiculous. Noone would have agreed to this if they had known.

2. Why didnt the winners need to pay for their contract?

3. Why didnt the wolves have to pay for their contract?

Points for paying for contracts:

1. Ummm.... The dealers want to be dicks?

Lol, it's a game. If it makes you feel any better, Round 2 is going to have a huge jackpot (Forli said we would be able to pass up on the Winners in Round 1), and in the RR, you can zero out your debt.

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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  MonkeyBoy on Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:30 pm

Okay, you guys.

Forli just basically said, "Hey. If we want to make this more like the actual Liar Game, we have to put you all in debt, except the ones who move on to the next round."

If anyone has ever read at least a chapter of the manga, which I'm sure people have, in every round, people always get in more debt than they can get out of. This is why people are forced to move onto the next round to get back the money that they lost. The money that they owe was forcibly placed amongst their hands; the players had no clue of the situation or circumstances of playing the game; they had no say whatsoever. You think if they KNEW the consequences of joining the game, they would? Kanzaki Nao obviously didn't know, and she had no say. Couldn't even go to a freakin' lawyer.

The LGT Dealers only did what they did to spur up a realistic reason as to why the losers should be put into debt. You think it's Liar Game-esque if only the winners got money and the wolves lost money? All in all, the chances of people gaining/losing money is 3 or 4 people out of 15+. That isn't very like the LGT Management in the manga.

Now, suck it up, because all of you who are in debt are in the same exact situation as those who were bamboozled in the manga, and got tricked into playing the game. Now it seems more like the real Liar Game.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Furer Kip on Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:56 pm

MonkeyBoy wrote:Okay, you guys.

Forli just basically said, "Hey. If we want to make this more like the actual Liar Game, we have to put you all in debt, except the ones who move on to the next round."

If anyone has ever read at least a chapter of the manga, which I'm sure people have, in every round, people always get in more debt than they can get out of. This is why people are forced to move onto the next round to get back the money that they lost. The money that they owe was forcibly placed amongst their hands; the players had no clue of the situation or circumstances of playing the game; they had no say whatsoever. You think if they KNEW the consequences of joining the game, they would? Kanzaki Nao obviously didn't know, and she had no say. Couldn't even go to a freakin' lawyer.

The LGT Dealers only did what they did to spur up a realistic reason as to why the losers should be put into debt. You think it's Liar Game-esque if only the winners got money and the wolves lost money? All in all, the chances of people gaining/losing money is 3 or 4 people out of 15+. That isn't very like the LGT Management in the manga.

Now, suck it up, because all of you who are in debt are in the same exact situation as those who were bamboozled in the manga, and got tricked into playing the game. Now it seems more like the real Liar Game.

Actually, everyone could see the rules, it was just written small on the invitation card. The actual LGT is a Zero-Sum game, so putting you under 100 million debt for losing, but you not using any of that, is lame. We weren't bamboozled, we didn't even know our contracts were worth anything, because there was nothing that said "your contracts are worth 100 million".

Besides, if we went back in time, and we asked Forli to take the contracts back, he be like,"Why?"

Also, I made a killing even though I lost.

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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  MonkeyBoy on Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:58 pm

The contracts is only a pretense/disguise to getting everyone in a 100 million debt.

It's better than the dealers saying "Hey, so, we need to like... put everyone in debt, so we'll put you guys in debt for no reason hurr hurr. :B"
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Furer Kip on Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:00 pm

MonkeyBoy wrote:The contracts is only a pretense/disguise to getting everyone in a 100 million debt.

It's better than the dealers saying "Hey, so, we need to like... put everyone in debt, so we'll put you guys in debt for no reason hurr hurr. :B"

The second one is more reasonable actually. You have to give the contracts a value, or at least say "this contract is mine, and I lend it to you, as a player". I got my money back, so again, no complaints.

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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  MonkeyBoy on Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:02 pm

Oh yea, how did you gain a 25 million yen profit?

Also, Crys was fooling around. She was just teasing me when she repeatedly used the pronoun "she" when referring to me.
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Re: Contracts Discussion

Post  Furer Kip on Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:04 pm

MonkeyBoy wrote:Oh yea, how did you gain a 25 million yen profit?

Also, Crys was fooling around. She was just teasing me when she repeatedly used the pronoun "she" when referring to me.

I got a cut and split the cut with Solarium lol. Oh, I see about the Crys thing.

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