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Contracts

Post  Forli on Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:18 pm

I suggested some time ago a new concept for the game, which I personally find really good: Legal contracts between the players.

If you recall the Minority Rule game in the manga, players made a legal contract which forced them to follow certain terms and to share winnings.
I want to apply a similar concept. The game application would be something like this:

- Each player gets from ONE to TWO per game or per round, depending on the game. But mostly just one contract. The exact amount would be specified at the rules of each game. If player A and player B sign a contract, they are both using their contracts, no just one of them.

- For "signing" a contract, both players must PM the dealer with the conditions of the contract. If they are exactly the same, contract will be validated by the dealer. If they are not the same, the contract would be nullified.

- Contracts would be completly unbreakable. Once the dealer approves the contract, breaking it would result in disqualification. If a contract contains a certain condition in which dealers can't certify if it was broken or not, contract would be nullified.

- The penalty for breaking a contract can vary if the contract says so. I.E if the contract specifies that the fine for the breach of the contract is 100 million yen, then that will be the legal penalty. If that was the case, money would be collected by a LGTO from the infracting player.

- Contracts are legit until the game ends, unless the contract itself says it differenly. Contracts always expire when the game ends, though.

What do players think?


Last edited by Forli on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Contracts

Post  Guest on Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:30 pm

I like your rules for the contract and also the knowledge that you and the other dealers can enforce the set penalties of the contract if it is broken (and that the penalties are reasonable too). I do propose a limit on contracts per player can make and maybe allow players to set a trial on contracts too if viable (so perhaps a contract that lasts for 3 days in a week long game, or perhap the contract lasting a lot less if a player breaches a term of the contract as such).
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Re: Contracts

Post  Guest on Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:43 pm

I think it would be good if there was something such as a "reactive" contract where effects would be applied under certain conditions such as one or more people's yen getting transferred to a main person if these other people were to fail in a certain task that you can verify. The amount of yen I would recommend would be small, but my initial guess would be 10% so if the person failed 10 times then they lose all their yen.

For this fusionblu's idea of putting a limit on the amount of contracts that one can make I would have disagree since I believe we would need more than one contract because there are many players on here and there would also be the chance on needing to make a contract with each player in your team. Not only that, there is no limit on the contracts in the real Liar Game so to have a limit here would only be disapointing.
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Re: Contracts

Post  Forli on Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:50 pm

I think it would be good if there was something such as a "reactive" contract where effects would be applied under certain conditions such as one or more people's yen getting transferred to a main person if these other people were to fail in a certain task that you can verify. The amount of yen I would recommend would be small, but my initial guess would be 10% so if the person failed 10 times then they lose all their yen.

I didn't quite get that.

For this fusionblu's idea of putting a limit on the amount of contracts that one can make I would have disagree since I believe we would need more than one contract because there are many players on here and there would also be the chance on needing to make a contract with each player in your team. Not only that, there is no limit on the contracts in the real Liar Game so to have a limit here would only be disapointing.

I don't agree. Even though it's true that in the real Liar Game players don't have a limit, this would only make the game boring. Trust me, I've already seen it. Everyone would just secure EVERY move and alliance with a contract, taking the "Liar" part out of the "Liar Game".

The purpose of only one contract per player is to use them as a triumph card, not as a daily tool like PM's.
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Re: Contracts

Post  Guest on Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:56 pm

I guess you have a point.
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Re: Contracts

Post  BadPlayer on Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:36 pm

Hmm... I suppose one contract per round would get people to use contracts to secure alliances and such, but if it's only one contract then it can't be overly-so.

I think you should be able to have contracts among as many people as you wish, like how the 8 people signed the contract in Round 2. Of course, it would count as the 1 contract for every person in the group.

Also, I think you need to set up some sort of procedure in the event that there is a dispute over whether a contract was followed. (Even if it's as simple as "Leronira looks at the situation and decides.")



I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but I might as well put it here: I think that the general yen transfers should be abolished. As we saw in both Group A and C's preliminary rounds, it really just turns the game into a battle of numbers, rather than strategy. (Of course, this doesn't count if there were something like M-Tickets in a game.)





Oh, and what I think YipMan was saying in his first part, was that contracts should be able to say, "If event A happens, then terms B apply, otherwise terms C apply. If event D happens, then terms E apply. If event F happens, terms G apply, if H happens, terms I apply, otherwise terms J apply, etc"
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Re: Contracts

Post  Forli on Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:55 pm

Hmm... I suppose one contract per round would get people to use contracts to secure alliances and such, but if it's only one contract then it can't be overly-so.

I think you should be able to have contracts among as many people as you wish, like how the 8 people signed the contract in Round 2. Of course, it would count as the 1 contract for every person in the group.

Yes, that is completly valid from the rules I wrote.

Also, I think you need to set up some sort of procedure in the event that there is a dispute over whether a contract was followed. (Even if it's as simple as "Leronira looks at the situation and decides.")

Dispues over a contract are rare. They happen, though. I.E., in the previous LGT a player stated in his contract something like "You will later pay me 80% of your winnings". Two players agreed to his terms, but did not actually paid him when they won. Why? Because the contract said "later" and that could mean "tomorrow", "next week" or "next century". It made more sense in spanish, though.
Those kinds of things are of course, discussed with the Dealers.
te]Oh, and what I think YipMan was saying in his first part, was that contracts should be able to say, "If event A happens, then terms B apply, otherwise terms C apply. If event D happens, then terms E apply. If event F happens, terms G apply, if H happens, terms I apply, otherwise terms J apply, etc"

Oh, gotcha there. That is also valid, of course.
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Re: Contracts

Post  Leronira on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:04 pm

I think it's a fine idea, except for the part where you allow for contracts that go beyond just one game. If this were so, players could exploit loopholes and essentially turn other players into their personal slaves for the entire tournament by putting "do whatever I say without exception" as the contract body. They could still do this by having the person who signs it do so every game, but it's quite unlikely.
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Re: Contracts

Post  Forli on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:11 pm

Oh, my mistake.

When I wrote:
- Contracts are legit until the game ends, unless the contract itself says it differenly.

I meant that you can modify the contract so it expires BEFORE that, not after. For example, you can make a contract that only lasts... 30 minutes.
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Re: Contracts

Post  Solarium King on Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:35 pm

Question:

If you sign a contract, does that mean you've used one of the contracts you can make, or can you still make other contract(s) without worry of using a contract? And if we are using contracts, can you use a single contract between rounds?

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Re: Contracts

Post  Forli on Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:44 pm

As I stated before, if player A signs a contract with Player B, they BOTH use they contracts.

And no, you can't.
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Re: Contracts

Post  BadPlayer on Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:59 pm

Forli wrote:Oh, my mistake.

When I wrote:
- Contracts are legit until the game ends, unless the contract itself says it differenly.

I meant that you can modify the contract so it expires BEFORE that, not after. For example, you can make a contract that only lasts... 30 minutes.
I think contracts should be able to extend to the start of the next game, rather than the end of the current game. This way if the prize is info, you can make sure you get it in the same contract you make sure you cooperate.
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Re: Contracts

Post  Solarium King on Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:17 pm

I don't think contracts should last the total time of a round, because that really sucks. Maybe for 1 day maximum.

Modifications:

Last for a day.
(I think you've got everything else I wanted for them)


Last edited by Solarium King on Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Contracts

Post  Guest on Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:52 pm

No, then there will be no lying in this game, lol. Isn't that the POINT of this tournament?~

-Love, Robert
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Re: Contracts

Post  Stavros XIII on Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:24 pm

Having contracts has been Stavros' Approved!
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Re: Contracts

Post  Xanatos on Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:47 am

i think the guidelines forli has are good. Xanatos approves
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Re: Contracts

Post  Guest on Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:22 pm

The only changes I would propose:

1) A contract template should be made that all players would have to follow. It will make it easier for dealers to read the contracts and keep track of them.

2) On said template, add a "writer" spot. This writer is also under the contract, but with the writer spot the dealers can know which player to subtract a contract "use" from.

3) Like someone else said - Possibly BadPlayer - the contract should allow more than two players at once, which would also have a position on the contract template.

4) An option of making a condition for if a player wants to leave the contract without specifically breaking it. The penalty would be different from that of breaking the contract and can be decided by the contract writer. This option could also be "disabled". The person who would want out would just have to tell the dealer. The dealer would then tell the others under the contract. At that time, the penalty would be put in effect.

Contract Template ex.:

-------------------------------------------------
/////////////////////////////////////////
LIAR GAME TOURNAMENT CONTRACT
/////////////////////////////////////////

Writer: Verrazzano (This is the person who would lose one of his/her contract uses)

Other Participants: Player 2, Player 3, Player 4, Player 5, etc. (These are the other players who would be under the contract. This could have a limit of 7 additional players [You may change that number])

Contract Conditions: (What must everyone do? This could even be name-specific if needed. E.g. Verrazzano has to divide his money if he wins. Player 2 has to transfer X-amount of yen to Player 3 at the end of the game.)

Contract Breach Conditions: (What actions would break the contract? Be specific please!)

Contract Breach Penalty: (What happens if you break the contract?)

Contract Withdrawal Yen Penalty: (How much is owed if you withdraw? Could be "None")

Time Period of Contract: (How long will this contract last? Minimum of a few minutes, maximum decided by dealers)

Your Username: Verrazzano (Just so you can tell who is "signing" it)

Place an X in the following box if you agree to follow the contract. [ ]

-------------------------------------------------
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Re: Contracts

Post  Nearco on Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:34 pm

Yes, with modifications.

First, as someone has already said, they should last until the start of the next game, hence allowing sharing of money.

Second, while it should remain that it is one use of a contract for all involved, I'd appreciate knowing who came up with the contract, just to see who's up to what. So, some of Verrazzano's ideas are still valid. And the whole readability thing.

Third, I need confirmation on what will happen if two contracts don't match. And what is to happen if not all players involved submit a contract.
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Re: Contracts

Post  Forli on Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:46 pm

Verrazzano:

I really liked the template idea, I'll probably be applying it, thanks.

BUT... I disagree on the writter thing. In real life, when two or more people sign a contract, they are all "using" it, so it should be this way here as well. And thinking about it, that way a person could hold as many contracts as the amount of players in that game, I wouldn't like that.

3) Like someone else said - Possibly BadPlayer - the contract should allow more than two players at once, which would also have a position on the contract template.

As I said, contracts are REALLY bendable in all sort of ways. Contracts were always supossed to work that way if wished, BUT all players who sign in it lose a contract use.

Nearco:

First, as someone has already said, they should last until the start of the next game, hence allowing sharing of money.

Agree, with one condition: Contracts cannot be used for "playing" after the rounds. It's only for sharing money purposes.

Third, I need confirmation on what will happen if two contracts don't match. And what is to happen if not all players involved submit a contract.

The contract would be nullified in the first case. In the second case, it would be put "in hold" until every player does so. Players would be notified of that, and they could choose to cancel the contract, as it would not be valid yet. The contracts wold ONLY be valid when the dealer confirms so.
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